What you need to know about advertising photography with Claudia Goetzelmann

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Welcome to the Success Inspired Podcast, a business and personal development

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podcast to help you accomplish more in life and realize your true potential.

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And now here is your host Vit Muller

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beautiful faces for very big companies and fashion brands.

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We talk about our journey as a traveling photographer.

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Her photography skills.

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Taking travel photos, traveling around, taking business photos to portrait.

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All the way to advertising.

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And landing a top geeks in the fashion.

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Photography industry in United States.

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We talk about balancing her dream versus the income need until she

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finally made it into a full-time income.

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Photographer she is today.

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We also talk

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Recognizing the good that people do and embracing progress over perfection.

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So.

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Strip the seatbelts and get ready because the second part of this podcast.

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It's all about spirituality.

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Whereas the first part of podcasts.

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All about photography and technical skills.

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I like the saying at the end that my guest says, which is there's no past.

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We can't hang on to the past.

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We can only take the wisdom forward into the now.

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Hope you enjoyed this interview I certainly did.

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Please welcome to the show.

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Claudia Goetzelmann.

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Great to have you on the show, Claudia and I'm look since I've

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already introduced you a little bit.

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what's something that not many people may not know about.

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It what's something that is not, was not part of your

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intro that I haven't, you know,

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I lived in Africa for two and a half years.

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I learned some in Nigeria and I learned how to speak Arabic for, for a year,

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but don't quote me on the spot on that, because that I've definitely forgotten

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a long time ago.

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That's fair enough.

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That's fair.

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All right.

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Let me give you some easy questions.

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Just get to get things started here.

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what, what compelled you to become a photographer in advertising?

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I think was always in my genes, that curiosity, I am an extremely

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curious person and I valued that.

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and characteristic trait, I would say in me maybe more now, more than

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ever, because I'm really aware of it.

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Pat curiosities is a life force and so curiosity.

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Oh, like the ring, my environment, looking into my environment

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and then having a camera.

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And I think it's third when I was four years old, I got my first camera and yeah.

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And what does that, what does it, what does that mean for you when you,

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when you, you know, when you press that shutter, what does that mean?

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The whole, you know, the whole experience of taking a photo.

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Cause for some, it might just be okay, well, I just need to take a photo.

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I'll press this.

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And this happens and I get a photo.

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Do you see, do you feel more about that then, then just simple

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action of precedent, the show.

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Yeah.

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I mean, so my logo on my company logo was for a long time.

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it's an old towel sign and it's an, I was ju legs.

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It's, you know, it's like an eye you're drawn eye, and then you have like,

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almost like a tripod on the bottom, and it's basically an eye and a person was

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the legs or my camera and the tripod.

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And it says, when you take the towel nation, without observation,

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learning is impossible.

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It's not observational.

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Learning is impossible.

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And to me that's actually that's that because, you know, even if

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I take a landscape or I assume into something detailed, there is

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this, there's something we learn.

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We take in, we look deeply.

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And that's, again, just this curiosity always been with me.

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And then when I went in my work, when I take pictures for jobs and

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it's either fashion or, you know, I did a lot of different things.

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annual reports I did in Singapore for many years and photographed a lot of CEOs.

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There's this connection you have to make.

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And then you have to establish a trust.

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You have to get curious about the person you have in front of you.

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Like even we, you know, I look at you and we have to sort of, we

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have to connect and we establish.

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Yeah.

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And so I that's what that means.

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It is, it is, it is that connection is important to build that, build that,

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and have that same sort of get on that same wavelength, especially when

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it counts to having a conversation.

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Right.

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And we are about to have a good conversation for at a solid hour.

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Cause I'm very curious about everything that you do and I'm sure a lot of

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listeners are, are curious as well.

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as, as far as curiosity, you mentioned curiosity, I think that's, that is an

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important topic in itself because that's something as a, as babies, when we were

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little, we all very curious, right.

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And then something happens in our life and then for some it's

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stays it's with them and then.

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For other people, it sort of dissipates.

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And then they sort of get into, you know, the regular sort of constraints

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of the system and just, you know, and they're just being told how they

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should live and they just follow that path and they never really deviate.

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So it's interesting.

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It would be an interesting topic in itself to, to to talk about.

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And, and, and what, you know, what are the differences between these people?

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What happens?

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Cause I, I certainly think that the, the first option it's better for a

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human being, like not being constrained because when you're allowed to be

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creative and when you're allowed to keep on observing that's when the creative

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creative ideas come out of rather than just following blindly, right.

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And obviously you're a very creative person yourself, otherwise you

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wouldn't be doing such an amazing work.

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I looked at your website, those photos all the fashion photos.

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They look amazing by the way.

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Thanks.

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Now, let's talk about your career a little bit.

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I'm stick to career or just a little bit, because we might have some listeners

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they're interested in, in that part.

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And then I dunno, you know, talk a bit more, maybe a little bit

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technical as well, and then we'll jump into some personal deep question

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to get to the bottom of everything.

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So, what is that lifestyle?

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what is the lifestyle like lifestyle of a photographer?

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Do you travel a lot?

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Obviously?

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Not now, but under normal circumstances.

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yeah, I have asked and I will hopefully again you know, I go anywhere.

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I, I, I love the world and it's, it's, I guess it's a set up.

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I mean, how do you set up your business?

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Right?

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It's I chose to not own a studio.

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I just rent a studio if I need it, because I have so many different

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jobs, whatever comes to me.

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It's, you know, there's small studios, big studios, they like non location.

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So I don't want to have a big overhead I'd rather want to be free to go places.

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And, and then wherever my job takes me, I, I rent everything.

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That obviously gives you that flexibility.

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And I think that fits fits your fits your, you know, who you are as a human being,

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you know, I can tell you're very creative.

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So I think that gives you that freedom to, to choose where you want to go and

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moving places, traveling the world.

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Right.

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That's awesome.

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That's awesome.

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Now tell us about the moments when you started to see success

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in you or a photography business.

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When you started to get some big gigs, when you started to actually earn income

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that, you know, support you and, and all the other things that go around it,

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what, how did that impact your lifestyle?

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Well, I think I'm an artist, right?

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So you never know what's happened.

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What happens.

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Jobs come jobs go.

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I don't, I'm not on a salary.

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I really have to trust that there's always work.

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I mean, as a photographer, it, you must wear a lot of different pants.

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you're not just the photographer, but you also, your accounting,

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your marketing expert, actually.

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So all of those things have to align in order to push you forward

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into that so-called success.

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it's very humble.

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You have to, I mean, I can tell you, I started in Singapore.

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I mean, I lived in Africa.

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I did a lot of tribal I took portraits of tribes, then I had an exhibited.

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stock exchange in Munich and Nigerian ambassador came.

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So is that success?

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It was one form of success.

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Right.

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Then I moved.

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Then I moved through Indonesia and I took a lot of pictures of resorts

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and it was travel photography, which was published in magazines.

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And then I moved to Singapore, which is a banking city and so business oriented.

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So from there, I, I ran really deep into annual reports because at that

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time there was still, I mean, so much portraiture was needed for

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these four or what annual report.

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and that's sort of shifted my life.

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I would say.

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when I started in Singapore was teaching German at a Goethe Institute of was

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really, you know, had to balance that.

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My dream versus the money I needed for living.

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Yeah.

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And then I bought and it shifted more and more and more.

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So I think that was because you asked me what was the first time where I felt like

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I'm making a living as a photographer and that was then, in Singapore.

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And how did

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that feel when you finally were fully riding on what you truly enjoyed doing?

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How, how has that, how did that feel?

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Oh my god, I actually remember the feeling.

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I was so proud of myself and I think I did a little dance when

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I put the check into the bank.

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That's awesome.

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Another another powerful moment was when I moved to the US and I, so I

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lived in Singapore for six and a half years, and then I was like, okay.

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I mean, my travel book, my sense of adventure and like

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what, just something out.

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Okay.

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America, the ultimate dream, I am going to move to America.

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And so I did it and I got a visa for special talent meaning and as

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an artist visa, as a photographer.

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And I remember when I got the visa, that was a big feeling

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of accomplishment and success.

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And is that

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when you started to get into more advertising photography, when

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you moved to America, because up until then was what he said.

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You said tribal taking tribal, taken tourism was in Singapore

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and then, sorry, not Singapore.

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The tourism stuff was in Indonesia.

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That's right.

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And then Singapore was more business world.

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So CEOs for their annual reports.

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So when you moved to America, is that when you, yeah.

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When you started to get into advertising,

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I already did some advertising work when I was in Singapore.

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So then it sort of more of more, I think it's interesting when you move

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to a bigger market, you know, Singapore is a small market and you as investor

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gnosis or expatriate, so to say, go fish.

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And then I moved to the US and people because it's a huge market,

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you need to be put into categories.

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So I had to sort of define myself, because in Singapore I was shooting

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this and that and this and that.

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Yeah.

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Just because I knew a lot of people I got, there was different

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opportunity, but in America it was new.

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And I had to define myself, which was really interesting exercise in

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hindsight, define and narrow down your, your business skills then yes, it

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went into advertising and then fashion

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Because as you say, you had, you had to define yourself, I guess that's,

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that's relevant to market, right?

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If there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of options, there's a

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lot of competition, a lot of photographers in America than you do.

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Right.

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You have to have a bit more of a niche.

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Otherwise you're just going to be another, another fish in a big

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point, and nobody will notice you.

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Whereas maybe when you were in Singapore, there weren't that many comp competition

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and, and what are some of the things that when it comes to advertising photography

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that not many people know about, I asked because, you know, we might have some

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sales and marketing oriented people and I'm listening and I'm, and this might be

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helpful to, to unpack a bit more for them.

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Well, so, it's, it's it's a big thing.

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So let's say you have a brand and you want to.

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Wow.

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When you campaign for your product.

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And so you call in either you, if you're really big, you probably have advertising

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agency on hand or a design company.

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And then the gather you do, you know, the art director, marketing person

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are thinking about the concepts and then the concepts are brew.

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And then the visual aspect is called in.

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So who is the right photographer who execute his idea?

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And it's again, it's, it's not a very competitive market as a

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lot of photographers and there's certainly books are called in three,

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three people or five people get to put out a bit what is for a job.

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And then it comes either down to style or money.

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. Right.

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And then it's, you know, also my, I have to think, I put my crew together.

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It's, I'd say you have a product and we're going on location.

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We need models.

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We need stylists.

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We need props.

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We need hair and makeup.

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We need permits in order to shoot on whatever day days.

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is there foot traffic, the weather the lights.

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Okay.

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I need in order to give it a look I want.

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The retouching, to post-production.

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It's a lot of collaboration.

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And so I find it amazing when I get a project because it's a dress sing again.

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And, you know, I'm dressed to execute his idea together with everybody else.

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And I like to say, it's basically we're giving bursts together.

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So I have to be very, very organized, really detail oriented.

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But at the same time, I have to allow myself to give this space and a day off

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the shoot, where the magic can happen.

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When a magic can really truly happen, where, you know, we're all so organized.

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We're all together.

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We're all here with our expertise and then we let go.

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Right.

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which is, yeah.

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And that's when magic happens.

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But if I haven't stuck to this idea, And maybe the model is a little bit

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different or, you know, sinks always, there's always some unexpected factors

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or there's always something w is maybe not working out or is it a surprise?

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We have to always be very, very flexible, but that's when you really

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let it go and you just go into your play mode, your inner child curiosity,

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and also take everybody along with it.

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And that's when I think when everybody can come along on this ride and

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then that's when beautiful pictures.

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Awesome.

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So, so big takeaway point from this is I guess, and this is relevant

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to, to anything, whether it's, you know, preparing for photography

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for a big project or it's, you know, preparing building plans or

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anything, I guess it's important.

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To prepare, because if you don't prepare, you're going to be,

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you're not going to be organized.

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I usually have a saying rule of five P's which is prior preparation,

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prevents piss poor performance.

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So if you're not prepared, the performance is a bit of a a gamble.

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You will, you are gambling, whether the performance is going to be good or not.

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Whereas if you really prepare all the way to the very, very

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detailed, then you're prepared.

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You're calm.

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You feel like you've got control.

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But then the second thing, what you said is you know, we can't expect to

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have everything a hundred percent in control because it's not possible.

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There's always something that falls outside of your control.

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And it's important to, I guess, yeah.

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Let go and not be too, too obsessed with perfection.

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So I think both are important because you can, you can all go like full on

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without any control or any preparation and just trying to improvise because

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you've got nothing to fall back.

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No, but I think it's really important to let it go.

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And it's an energy thing, right?

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If you know, you prepared yourself, well, you know, you did the best you can to

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show up for the project, whatever that is.

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Then you also putting that energy of confidence out outwards,

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and we all react on energy.

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So I have a group of, you know, eight people and then the client

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is maybe five, six people.

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And then there's an, there's a creative directors and

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everybody's standing behind me.

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If I waver, everybody's going to pick up my energy and the whole

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set is going to be stressed.

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So I'm basically on the stage and it's almost like a performance, but it's not a

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performance because I'm just being me now.

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I know what I'm good at.

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And I know what I do.

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And then I get, do really take everybody along on this right.

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Of playfulness.

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And it's a trust thing because they all sort of have to come along.

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They hired me, right.

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They have to also let go cause this, that they trust me, that I'm

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going to give them what they want.

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And there's only that budget for one time for one of these, you

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know, there's no reshooting or doing it again with another person.

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It's really, if you think about it, it's a pretty interesting process.

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And I think also in the day, these days where, you know, everybody can

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be a photographer because it's on Instagram and things are often, you

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know, photos are small and people like I'm a photographer, but, and it becomes

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almost like commodity, but if you take it away and really think about the big

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project it's it's I think it's a beautiful profession and we should really honor it.

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And yeah, see the details.

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That's awesome.

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That's just the way you put it just sounds like really cool.

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Almost like an orchestra.

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Like you really have that one shot, because like you said, there's so

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many components that go with, you mentioned models, props, location.

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Often times you have to maybe even pay fees for, you know, to be

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where you want to be and all that.

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Right.

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And so there's, there's a budget.

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Every everything can be very expensive.

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I think in the movies when they should move it's similar.

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I think they say like every hour of over, you know, on the shoot

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costs like thousands, thousands of dollars, depending on how big it is.

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So, so yeah, so it's.

Speaker: 00:19:16

Well, my point, I also wanted to make it so interesting because

Speaker: 00:19:19

of the whole Instagram thing.

Speaker: 00:19:20

I had so many of these situations recently where, you know, so the

Speaker: 00:19:24

client it's, so it's also a matter of education of educating the client.

Speaker: 00:19:29

So the client sees, oh, that photographer so-called in a Brendan

Speaker: 00:19:33

is on Instagram and it's doing, maybe let's say it's influenza and oh my

Speaker: 00:19:37

God, they can, they can shoot it.

Speaker: 00:19:39

So I used to that little story.

Speaker: 00:19:41

I used to live in San Francisco for many years before I moved to LA.

Speaker: 00:19:45

So it's all about tech, startup, tech startup, and it's always

Speaker: 00:19:50

the afterthought product.

Speaker: 00:19:53

We have the website, oh my God.

Speaker: 00:19:54

Now we need visuals.

Speaker: 00:19:55

We need photos and you need visuals.

Speaker: 00:19:59

You need photos to bring your product alive.

Speaker: 00:20:01

So they call me and they're like, wow.

Speaker: 00:20:03

You know, we love your work.

Speaker: 00:20:04

It's so it's so clean and it's minimal.

Speaker: 00:20:06

That will be amazing.

Speaker: 00:20:07

So I give them my quote.

Speaker: 00:20:09

And then they go back and then they go, my God, we spent all the money

Speaker: 00:20:12

on whatever you spend the money on.

Speaker: 00:20:19

And then they come back and be like, could you make it cheaper?

Speaker: 00:20:22

You know?

Speaker: 00:20:22

And also I have a cousin who actually can photograph it.

Speaker: 00:20:26

I'm like, well, if that's the case, you know, maybe your

Speaker: 00:20:28

cousin really should do it.

Speaker: 00:20:31

I'm not kidding.

Speaker: 00:20:32

That's been so many times.

Speaker: 00:20:33

And then they come back and they say, it's a disaster.

Speaker: 00:20:37

Maybe we need some help is retouching.

Speaker: 00:20:39

Can you recommend somebody buddy went all wrong.

Speaker: 00:20:44

We should have really, we should have hired you.

Speaker: 00:20:46

And it's just, it's fascinating how, you know, it's an educational thing.

Speaker: 00:20:51

Like you do still need a person who knows the skills and knows the

Speaker: 00:20:56

light who knows how to conduct this, and I am, we should, maybe we

Speaker: 00:21:00

should not give this to your cousin.

Speaker: 00:21:02

. So this is important.

Speaker: 00:21:04

This is very interesting because there might be people listening.

Speaker: 00:21:07

They might, you know, they might think.

Speaker: 00:21:09

It, you know, what's so hard about taking a good photo because I mean,

Speaker: 00:21:12

these days, I mean, you know, I words, you know, technology is so great.

Speaker: 00:21:16

Like, you can take a photo if, you know, I've got, you know, Canon and 50 fully

Speaker: 00:21:19

automatic it takes, amazing photos.

Speaker: 00:21:22

So for, for, for, for people that might be questioning, you know, the value

Speaker: 00:21:26

proposition of having a professional photographer, like, like what would be

Speaker: 00:21:31

something, some, some other little details that you would, that you would want to

Speaker: 00:21:35

tell them that they may not realize that go into the process of a good photo?

Speaker: 00:21:40

well, so the whole group I'm bringing, you know, let's say you will be photographed.

Speaker: 00:21:45

Will you be ready to be photographed?

Speaker: 00:21:47

Are you gonna bring your own clothes?

Speaker: 00:21:49

And it's going to, your shirt was hanging in your closet and it's halfway wrinkly.

Speaker: 00:21:55

No.

Speaker: 00:21:56

I mean, what will that show?

Speaker: 00:21:57

It actually match into the set, what we're going to do, will that really

Speaker: 00:22:01

project who you, how you want to be seen with that Orville, we have a silent,

Speaker: 00:22:07

whoever we'll have three, four options of outfit and make you look like the

Speaker: 00:22:12

way you really want to be portrayed.

Speaker: 00:22:14

And as you are, maybe the face of your company, so, and then makeup.

Speaker: 00:22:20

How do you going to look?

Speaker: 00:22:21

Maybe you need a little touch up and then what about maybe the light is the light?

Speaker: 00:22:27

The the iPhone might take a nice snap when you have it small on your Instagram.

Speaker: 00:22:32

It works probably for that.

Speaker: 00:22:33

But then on the website, on your website, when we zoom in,

Speaker: 00:22:36

well, it will really look good.

Speaker: 00:22:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:39

It needs, it needs to pop, especially if it's advertising, right.

Speaker: 00:22:43

It needs to be nice and crisp.

Speaker: 00:22:46

And then you've got lights.

Speaker: 00:22:47

You got all the technical aspects.

Speaker: 00:22:49

the equipment.

Speaker: 00:22:50

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:51

Shutter speed balance all those little bits.

Speaker: 00:22:55

That's all second nature.

Speaker: 00:22:56

Right?

Speaker: 00:22:56

I can do, I can discuss and debate that this is what I prepare for.

Speaker: 00:23:01

This is my preparation in advance.

Speaker: 00:23:02

And then I just come and then it becomes this, this fluid motion where we all

Speaker: 00:23:08

are because we have a long shot list.

Speaker: 00:23:10

We not react.

Speaker: 00:23:11

We're not, we're not here to discuss how we're going to do it, which is

Speaker: 00:23:14

going to be like, okay, do any shots?

Speaker: 00:23:16

Let's do this.

Speaker: 00:23:17

Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:23:18

And have fun along the way.

Speaker: 00:23:20

Now on that token, though, there are small business starting out, really,

Speaker: 00:23:25

really sort of just bootstrapping their business with zero next to nothing.

Speaker: 00:23:29

Small budget may be a stay at home mom with a kid trying to, you know, start

Speaker: 00:23:35

some sort of business just to get by.

Speaker: 00:23:38

People like that don't have budget.

Speaker: 00:23:40

What would you recommend them?

Speaker: 00:23:41

What would be your top tips for somebody like that?

Speaker: 00:23:45

Who may not afford a professional photographer for their advertising needs?

Speaker: 00:23:49

What would you recommend for them in terms of, you know, how, how could

Speaker: 00:23:52

they go about taking some photos?

Speaker: 00:23:56

I mean, if it's essential that they have good photos, I mean, there's

Speaker: 00:23:59

some amazing stock photography, which is pretty cheaply available.

Speaker: 00:24:06

Maybe it's a good start just to start with that.

Speaker: 00:24:10

But if they want to be in it, I think it's, it's worthwhile to, to find an

Speaker: 00:24:15

invest into, at least one session was yours for yourself, if you are,

Speaker: 00:24:22

because if you are to phase of your business and you really don't, you know,

Speaker: 00:24:27

and that's part of also what I offer.

Speaker: 00:24:29

It's like re it's a branding question.

Speaker: 00:24:31

I would sit down, I've worked with a lot of fashion brands, small fashion

Speaker: 00:24:34

brands, and they have a collection and then certain and then need photos.

Speaker: 00:24:40

But yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:40

Then we need to really dig into it, like, who is your client?

Speaker: 00:24:44

So who's going to buy your clothes.

Speaker: 00:24:46

How are we going to show the clothes?

Speaker: 00:24:49

Would that be your client feels like, oh, this is for me.

Speaker: 00:24:52

And then it's, you know, the client is going to buy it.

Speaker: 00:24:56

It's attracted is drawn to it.

Speaker: 00:24:58

Although it's, it's it's often you it's his idea.

Speaker: 00:25:01

And in this case, let's say the fashion designer is very great of amazing clothes,

Speaker: 00:25:05

but then if it comes to the brand.

Speaker: 00:25:08

It's a whole nother, maybe they've never thought of that.

Speaker: 00:25:11

You know, what are the company colors?

Speaker: 00:25:14

Where if you have one collection, will there be a continuation, will

Speaker: 00:25:17

it be, you know, build up to the next collection, will the visual

Speaker: 00:25:21

visually, will it tell a story?

Speaker: 00:25:23

Will it be, you know, also fit into everything.

Speaker: 00:25:26

It, everything needs to be coherent, but it can't be the same.

Speaker: 00:25:31

It has, it always needs to be a little bit different.

Speaker: 00:25:33

So it's all these interesting contemplations and discussion I have

Speaker: 00:25:38

with my clients and we take deeper and then we grew out of that comes

Speaker: 00:25:42

access that final visual concept.

Speaker: 00:25:46

Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:25:46

Absolutely not.

Speaker: 00:25:48

Hang on a minute.

Speaker: 00:25:49

I just had some really good question and I just forgot.

Speaker: 00:25:52

I just forget about it.

Speaker: 00:25:53

I didn't really good question.

Speaker: 00:25:54

Just give me a second.

Speaker: 00:25:55

I'll see if it comes back, I'll give you a chance to drink some water.

Speaker: 00:26:00

there was something about that, about photography.

Speaker: 00:26:04

Visual.

Speaker: 00:26:05

Oh, yes.

Speaker: 00:26:07

I was going to say,

Speaker: 00:26:10

where are

Speaker: 00:26:12

the times that we are live in now?

Speaker: 00:26:14

Right?

Speaker: 00:26:15

We are so isolated with the COVID so e-commerce grows even

Speaker: 00:26:26

more than it was before, Covid.

Speaker: 00:26:28

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:26:29

And so if you are somebody that's selling online products, clothes, fashion, it's

Speaker: 00:26:36

also about the shopping experience.

Speaker: 00:26:38

Right.

Speaker: 00:26:39

And in order to provide that shopping experience photography

Speaker: 00:26:44

again is an important element, right?

Speaker: 00:26:47

For the customers to be able to see all the different angles, the product.

Speaker: 00:26:55

Right.

Speaker: 00:26:56

Well, yeah, I mean, it's interesting where photography is going in that regard

Speaker: 00:27:01

because like H&M, Hennes & Mauritz, I think you have it in Australia as well.

Speaker: 00:27:05

They already starting to use avatars.

Speaker: 00:27:09

You can upload your measurements, your photo, they build an avatar of you.

Speaker: 00:27:16

And then it's AI.

Speaker: 00:27:18

AI is, is coming, and then you can visually virtually try on the

Speaker: 00:27:24

clothes and spin it around 360.

Speaker: 00:27:27

So you can see yourself through an augmented reality and see

Speaker: 00:27:31

yourself wearing those clothes.

Speaker: 00:27:32

That's that's, that's amazing as well.

Speaker: 00:27:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:27:35

I've seen something like that at the Microsoft store.

Speaker: 00:27:37

They had the, the Microsoft Google goggles and you could see AR, but

Speaker: 00:27:42

this is great example of that.

Speaker: 00:27:44

Yeah, how they can take e-commerce to the next level.

Speaker: 00:27:48

It it's it's.

Speaker: 00:27:49

I mean, this is the next frontier it's coming and I'm curious, what's

Speaker: 00:27:53

gong to happen to photography itself.

Speaker: 00:27:57

I mean, it's changing, right?

Speaker: 00:27:58

It has to change ever since digital arrived and it went, you

Speaker: 00:28:03

know, big, big cameras, then the video aspect became part of it.

Speaker: 00:28:08

So it's, and now, again, it's really changing with the, with AI.

Speaker: 00:28:14

but I think there's still always a Renaissance and the need

Speaker: 00:28:18

for, or photography was a human beings because we're still human.

Speaker: 00:28:22

We're not just people still want to see a real person and a real model.

Speaker: 00:28:27

And, and not just like you would a generated.

Speaker: 00:28:32

Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:28:32

Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:28:33

It'll be interesting to see where the future takes us.

Speaker: 00:28:37

Let's move on to sound personal questions.

Speaker: 00:28:39

You said this one thing and says it's not about the big death, but the daily

Speaker: 00:28:43

ones where we get to die in birth again and renew, what do you mean by that?

Speaker: 00:28:49

Well, we do truly die every moment, right?

Speaker: 00:28:53

Even our body.

Speaker: 00:28:54

Right.

Speaker: 00:28:55

We, when we started this conversation, you and I are not the same person.

Speaker: 00:28:59

Our cells have died and rebirth.

Speaker: 00:29:03

So.

Speaker: 00:29:04

This is in relation to my other work end of life and coaching.

Speaker: 00:29:10

And I think if we realize that we are dying every moment or that there is

Speaker: 00:29:19

so many deaths in our lives, let's say at the end of a job, the end of a

Speaker: 00:29:23

relationship to end of a life, the way the habits we used to have specially

Speaker: 00:29:30

now, because of during COVID, then we can be with it in an easier way.

Speaker: 00:29:37

And we can prepare ourselves for the big one.

Speaker: 00:29:40

And we don't have to be so scared because when you say the word 'death'

Speaker: 00:29:51

people shriek.They think darkness.

Speaker: 00:29:57

Well, there's no knowing.

Speaker: 00:29:59

It's just like, oh, that's the far, far, far, far, far.

Speaker: 00:30:02

We don't need to actually engage on this topic right now.

Speaker: 00:30:05

Wait, I deal with it later, but it's, you know, it's ever so present in our life.

Speaker: 00:30:11

So we can, I just want to, I'm very interested in the topic because

Speaker: 00:30:16

I really think it's not as dark.

Speaker: 00:30:18

And I would like to change the conversation around this.

Speaker: 00:30:23

Where did this interest started for you?

Speaker: 00:30:25

Where did it come from?

Speaker: 00:30:26

it's started because I had a very heart wrenching life-changing burn down.

Speaker: 00:30:33

I've been through a very painful divorce and I felt that in this process, And

Speaker: 00:30:43

old part me actually died the old life I left my, the way you know, my, my

Speaker: 00:30:50

dreams, the way I had set up my lives, the love I had given to this person,

Speaker: 00:30:56

my friends, my community, everything sort of have collapsed in itself.

Speaker: 00:31:01

And it, it, it just, and that, and then.

Speaker: 00:31:06

I was in the mud.

Speaker: 00:31:08

I called this the mud.

Speaker: 00:31:10

I was sitting in the ground and the darkness.

Speaker: 00:31:12

So to say, or maybe it wasn't even that it was muddy.

Speaker: 00:31:16

It was, you know, because I was battling with myself, but then I realized,

Speaker: 00:31:20

wow, I let go of all these things.

Speaker: 00:31:24

They are no longer me.

Speaker: 00:31:25

And now I get to rebirth myself and I get to take Jesus on and

Speaker: 00:31:30

decide who do I need to be?

Speaker: 00:31:32

Who do I want to be?

Speaker: 00:31:33

And I began this beautiful, beautiful process of sweepers.

Speaker: 00:31:38

So I was very, very interested in, in, in, in deaths.

Speaker: 00:31:41

I became interested.

Speaker: 00:31:42

What does that really mean?

Speaker: 00:31:45

And I did a deep dive.

Speaker: 00:31:47

Wow.

Speaker: 00:31:48

I mean, that's a big topic.

Speaker: 00:31:50

I don't even know if I'm willing to go in there cause I don't know much about it.

Speaker: 00:31:56

I guess I'm one of those.

Speaker: 00:31:58

We'll leave it to later.

Speaker: 00:32:01

It's interesting.

Speaker: 00:32:02

I'm just going to say this real quick.

Speaker: 00:32:03

I mean, again, really all live in our different reality, right?

Speaker: 00:32:07

And you, you live in Australia and I'm in Germany.

Speaker: 00:32:10

And so the COVID really, I think there's a silver lining to COVID

Speaker: 00:32:15

and COVID changed our lives image.

Speaker: 00:32:18

In general.

Speaker: 00:32:19

We can say that it's forced us to look in to ourselves, to our lives.

Speaker: 00:32:27

And there's definitely the word sings.

Speaker: 00:32:29

We no longer need and we, we can put down, but if we don't have

Speaker: 00:32:34

the language around this, then it's becomes this nut inside us.

Speaker: 00:32:38

And it's just this feeling of this disatisfaction and we don't

Speaker: 00:32:43

can not be, can not address it.

Speaker: 00:32:45

But if we understand that, wow, Maybe I'm grieving something I had to let go.

Speaker: 00:32:54

And if we can put words and emotions to it, then we can be

Speaker: 00:32:58

with it and then gracefully address it and put it down because we

Speaker: 00:33:01

realized we don't need it anymore.

Speaker: 00:33:03

And through that, we make space for something new and that's the rebirth.

Speaker: 00:33:09

That's a very nice way to put it.

Speaker: 00:33:11

That's a, that's awesome because you're right.

Speaker: 00:33:13

We, we often times, we don't really know what it is that is frustrating

Speaker: 00:33:18

us or what are we worrying about?

Speaker: 00:33:20

And if we don't know what it is, we don't know how to address it.

Speaker: 00:33:24

And it's just, we're just hinging on something that's there

Speaker: 00:33:27

that we can't really explain.

Speaker: 00:33:30

Right.

Speaker: 00:33:30

So that's yeah, that's great.

Speaker: 00:33:34

That's great.

Speaker: 00:33:35

At the beginning, you said, you know, that you, through an observation,

Speaker: 00:33:39

you, you can come to realization of you know, what's possible.

Speaker: 00:33:46

What's been done.

Speaker: 00:33:47

What are the opportunities?

Speaker: 00:33:50

And

Speaker: 00:33:50

we live such a hectic busy lives.

Speaker: 00:33:54

Some of us that we oftentimes forget all the little bits of effort that

Speaker: 00:34:02

we put throughout the day into tasks, actions that at the end of the day,

Speaker: 00:34:09

especially when we are chasing some dream, we might be chasing some goal.

Speaker: 00:34:12

We might forget what we've actually accomplished that day.

Speaker: 00:34:17

And then we just keep on chasing some dream.

Speaker: 00:34:19

And because we're still not there, we might say, it's easy

Speaker: 00:34:22

to say, oh, I'm a failure.

Speaker: 00:34:26

Or I'm not, I'm not an accomplishment.

Speaker: 00:34:29

I'm not accomplishing things, but if you can stop and observe what you've

Speaker: 00:34:34

done that day as an example, maybe writing your notes does something I've

Speaker: 00:34:39

mentioned few times in the podcast.

Speaker: 00:34:40

what I do, I like to use checklists, you know, and, and or at the end of the day,

Speaker: 00:34:46

if I haven't had a checklist, come back to a note, you know, open my notebook

Speaker: 00:34:50

and write down what I've done that day.

Speaker: 00:34:53

And it's just going through the exercise of writing down.

Speaker: 00:34:56

I start to observe all the effort, everything that I've done, and I start

Speaker: 00:35:01

to feel better and better and better.

Speaker: 00:35:04

And then, you know, once I've exhausted all that, I think that I've done that day.

Speaker: 00:35:08

I'm like, okay, well, you know what?

Speaker: 00:35:09

I've actually made another step forward towards where I want to go.

Speaker: 00:35:14

Another, if it's 1% 0.1%, whatever it is just a little improvement, but only when

Speaker: 00:35:21

I've written it down and I can observe it.

Speaker: 00:35:23

If I haven't written it down, if I haven't put it, you know, took

Speaker: 00:35:26

the effort to sit down and really think about all that I've done.

Speaker: 00:35:32

I've won't have the opportunity to observe it.

Speaker: 00:35:35

So I just say that,

Speaker: 00:35:39

No, we need to pause and we need to let it sink in.

Speaker: 00:35:42

And then we also, we're so hard on ourselves, right?

Speaker: 00:35:46

We're always aiming.

Speaker: 00:35:47

We're living in the society of productivity, but there's

Speaker: 00:35:52

so many things we're doing.

Speaker: 00:35:54

And I think just showing up for ourselves, we should really sometimes

Speaker: 00:35:59

honour that and be like, I showed up the day I made an effort.

Speaker: 00:36:03

I started, I may, it may not be perfect, but I did.

Speaker: 00:36:07

I broke the ice and that in itself, that's how we move forward.

Speaker: 00:36:12

Right.

Speaker: 00:36:14

Maybe that I'm thinking I need to run a marathon.

Speaker: 00:36:18

That's just walk around the block and that's it.

Speaker: 00:36:22

That's like, because we don't get overwhelmed.

Speaker: 00:36:25

And then we can see that we are doing.

Speaker: 00:36:28

I think that's such an important take away.

Speaker: 00:36:31

And as you said, journaling, you know, your list just going down and reminding

Speaker: 00:36:37

exactly reminding ourselves consciously, I'm like, oh yeah, that was a good day.

Speaker: 00:36:41

I did this.

Speaker: 00:36:42

you said the right word was, we are so being very hard on ourselves.

Speaker: 00:36:46

We are being hard on ourselves and we constantly chase the productivity.

Speaker: 00:36:51

We perceive productivity as something that, you know, it

Speaker: 00:36:54

needs to be more, we need to be able to do more than what we do.

Speaker: 00:36:57

my hope is that, you know, some, some of you guys listening, I hope that one of

Speaker: 00:37:01

you out there, you know, is taking this.

Speaker: 00:37:04

I hope that all of you taking this to heart.

Speaker: 00:37:06

and I'm also hoping that that is somebody out there listening to this

Speaker: 00:37:09

that is, has been thinking about starting something and haven't and

Speaker: 00:37:16

been waiting for that perfect moment.

Speaker: 00:37:19

Because what you said is, yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:21

Just start.

Speaker: 00:37:22

Just do one little step towards that next step.

Speaker: 00:37:25

Just one little step.

Speaker: 00:37:27

Don't wait until you've got everything planned out.

Speaker: 00:37:29

Don't wait until you've got your business name.

Speaker: 00:37:32

You know, if it's in relation to business, don't wait until you've

Speaker: 00:37:34

got , everything laid out to start, just start with something

Speaker: 00:37:40

and right.

Speaker: 00:37:42

Just start, just do it and put yourself out on the desk.

Speaker: 00:37:46

Runnable space.

Speaker: 00:37:47

It's about having the courage being brave and stepping into your vulnerability.

Speaker: 00:37:53

And if it feels Ooh, and you are like on your edge, that's exactly

Speaker: 00:37:58

the spot where you need to be.

Speaker: 00:38:00

Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:38:01

Speaking of speaking of spot, Claudia, can I put you on a spot

Speaker: 00:38:04

again of another tough question?

Speaker: 00:38:08

Tell me something that's true.

Speaker: 00:38:10

That almost nobody agrees with you.

Speaker: 00:38:14

well I believe that we have been here before and we will come again and this

Speaker: 00:38:20

world, I mean, it's related out about re relation to rebirths I don't know if

Speaker: 00:38:25

you ever had an encounter where you felt like you met somebody and you met that

Speaker: 00:38:29

person for a long time and even so you just met and there's this familiarity.

Speaker: 00:38:34

I know, I know.

Speaker: 00:38:35

Yes.

Speaker: 00:38:35

I know what you're talking about.

Speaker: 00:38:36

I have met people in my life.

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I can't define the memory because it's in the past but I know it happened and

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it was the experience of like instant.

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It was like an instant connection and instant, the rapport was so great.

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You know, I don't know if it was at a bar talking to somebody.

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maybe I had few piece maybe that was influencing that to maybe I'm not sure.

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I'm just trying to think, but I'm pretty sure this happened

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to me in life once or twice.

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Yeah.

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So I wouldn't know.

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I was thinking about soul connections.

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Oh, and oh, maybe we also, another thing could interesting could be

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that all the people we meet it's meant to be, because you know, there

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are so many options in our life.

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Like why did I click on your podcast and why I was like,

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I need to talk to this, man.

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I want to be on his podcast.

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So, you know, there's this, why are we drawn to certain things?

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Why are we making decisions the way we make them?

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I think that's, it's an interesting contemplation to have.

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So, because it's meant to be, because we have to exchange something,

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we have to have this conversation and then we go about our life.

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I don't know if sometimes.

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There's not just coincidence that's just meant to be.

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Hmm.

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Yeah, because I mean, there is there's, I mean, last year podcasting space has

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doubled because of COVID as double amount of people are running their podcasts, as

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it has theirs, I don't know the number on the 600,000 podcasters or something.

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And then you've got so many Instagram channels and you did ended up

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just coming across my Instagram.

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And I know you've messaged me with an interest to be on the show.

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And so you're right.

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Actually.

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Yeah, it is very interesting to

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give something to you or you at Yale.

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I mean, maybe it is, this was something meant to be, maybe it's a little

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seed do for the listeners who knows.

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I mean, I'm, I'm saying does in the most humble way, I'm just curious about

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these encounters, why they happen.

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And sometimes when we do it, we don't even know, and then we're drawn to it and then.

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And it's complete.

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And then we go about our life.

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Yeah.

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There's not a, it's not even about trying to figure out the actual finite answer.

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It's just a, it's just the exercise of just having to think about it.

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Like what, you know, what does that mean?

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Right.

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I mean, you're right.

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Yeah, because I mean, it could just be that as a result of having this

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conversation, we've helped someone's life improve, you know, make finally,

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maybe we've said something that finally clicked in for somebody out there

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that they needed to, here to finally make sense, and change in their life.

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Who knows?

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Right we hope so.

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It is, it is a big question, right there.

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Just like thinking about death, big question mark.

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Right.

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What's after, right.

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I think that that's for like a whole another interview, I think.

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so back to you Claudia, what drives you to help others so much?

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You mentioned, you have also your other business where you help others as a doula,

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and then you have also life coaching.

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So what drives you to do that?

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Because you could have just easily be photographer and just do that.

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Right?

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I realized in this rebirth that I much more than just the

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photographer and I'm a people person.

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I mean, as a photographer, you are people I do constantly connect with others and I

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felt if I can share forward what I learned in somebody, because of that, that doesn't

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need to go all the way down and burn down as much as I did every beautiful.

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And I really, truly want to be a part of the conversation to change around

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this because we are born to die.

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And if we can.

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You know, the way we die or I'm just gonna just another little side saying, but the

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way we die right now, it's, you know, used to be with the family in the community.

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And now we have taken it away to the hospital and it became very sterilised.

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And it became because of that most frightening.

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But if we can bring it back again and make it again, a celebration of the life of the

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person just going from form to formless, then I think we become a better society.

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We become better friends.

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We become a stronger community because it's really, it's a very intimate process.

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And we've witnessed somebody like a burst view, witness, a burst.

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It's like, wow, it's magic of the life.

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And then it's on the other end.

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It's the death.

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It's the magic of the life again.

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So I find is a very, very sacred and beautiful process because

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we're all going to go through this.

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You know, we are birth and we're going to die.

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So I want to be part of this conversation.

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I feel like this is my role in this lifetime.

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The only thing about that is, and this is what I think is it's a big difference if

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it's somebody who's dying and they're 90 years old and they've had their life in

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the dying naturally as a result of aging us versus somebody else who may have died.

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And they're young, I think that's the hard part to, to, to digest.

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I think for, for the families of individuals,

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It is, it is, I, I mean, this is a whole, another deep conversation.

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We can go down.

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My, my my brother passed away when he was 22 years old.

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So I have a personal relationship with this.

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And, but it's about acceptance.

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And that again, that's a whole deep conversation.

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It's about acceptance of life.

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Acceptance.

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What is given to us?

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Why?

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I think we should never ask why, why is not a good question to ask in life?

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It's just things happen.

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We are not what happened, which is the witness and it's out.

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Then we get to choose be with it or react to it in a way, if we

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fight it, it will fight us back.

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But it's, we have to accept that.

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And I know it's easier said than done, but there's nothing we can do against that.

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Right.

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It's just, it wasn't meant to be that person passed.

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So.

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I don't want to sound harsh and cold, you know, I've a very deep spiritual

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belief that really, we have to accept that something doesn't work out.

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We don't even have to go to the big death.

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If a relationship doesn't work out, we have to accept it, put it down gracefully.

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There was a lesson in it.

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And then we take that lesson and the wisdom when we gained with us and

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move onward, I mean, we can even apply this to a business, a business fail.

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but like you said, easier said than done.

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I mean, at the end of the day, it all comes down to our emotions.

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And how are we able to control our emotions too?

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Like you said, to put it down, let it go.

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And don't, don't beat ourselves over it.

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Or don't try to continuously question why, why it is or how it could be, would be.

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Because we can, if we can really live in the, now it comes back to that

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curiosity and observation and see you, what is in front of us, maybe, you

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know, that's the, that is it right?

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There is no past, we can't hang onto the past.

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We can take the wisdom forward into the now.

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And we cannot live in a future either because the future hasn't even arrived.

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We have two stories.

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There's projection.

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We put, I like when, when you're going to be like this,

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then I'm going to do like that.

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That's a projection.

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We don't know.

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So why not be in the now, why not be like really, really present

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and see what's gifted to us.

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And we'll go from there.

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I just want to add more to it.

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I know we want to move on from it.

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Cause it's like very deep in like this, this I'm going too deep.

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That's okay.

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I'm just trying to find what's the segue from it.

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What's the message around success and inspiring success.

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Cause that's the podcast here, I guess, in a way it is in a look in a way it is.

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I think, because whether it's the success of building

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business or success or properly.

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Oh, I can say something.

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Yep.

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Go ahead.

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Okay.

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I feel the more we know about ourselves and that it's a

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personal, we become personally successful with our internal self.

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We also ripple outward and we will be successful in our business

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because there is not separation between personal and business.

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We are the business.

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We are energy, right?

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And a business, a successful business CEO isn't will.

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If he knows we either the person, he will be an amazing leader.

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Was he, he, he just, you know, I mean, we have so many examples of, of big

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companies were using, wow, how could that person, if you know, it treats the people

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horribly and then there's another CEO.

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And he, she we're like, wow, that person is so kind.

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I can't believe they, you know, really looking after the employees.

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So it's, it's all who we are, who we are personally.

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The more we know who we are, how we tick, what drives us, not the

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way we look out into the world.

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I think the better we create our business.

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I like, I like the segue.

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you made it into business.

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That's nice.

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We got, we got, we got there.

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what would be, what would be your top three things?

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You'd like our listeners to walk away with.

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After listening today,

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keep your inner child alive.

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Stay curious, no matter what, keep playing it, nurture that inner child.

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It doesn't matter.

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Age, you know, just roll around on a hill, go play , love one.

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I think that's so essential for our soul, our soul wants to play.

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Just start no matter what are difficult, it appears just go and make that

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baby step in that, that direction, because that puts you on that way.

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Rest of your journey,

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trust the journey,

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the journey because whatever unfolds trust that it's meant for you.

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And have that conviction.

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And I think that by trusting it opens a space, we need to step into our own power.

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Nice.

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I like that.

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Claudia, how can people find you?

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Well, so we started with the photography we end with that.

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It's https://www.claudiagoetzelmann.com/ and then my midlife coaching is

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Permission To Gloom Coaching and and then Instagram and I'm sure

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it's will be in the show notes.

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Absolutely.

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I'll put it all in the show notes.

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Now as a last final piece, any final piece of wisdom, you'd

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like to say to our listeners in closing of this interview today,

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You have to be you there to be you no matter.

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What you're saying again, get those voices out of your head and just be,

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be yourself have the courage to be you.

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You're beautiful.

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Beautiful.

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I love it.

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Claudia, thank you so much for being on the show.

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We we've, we've covered a fair bit.

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We went really deep, some really deep topics here today.

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I don't think we've had such a deep topic on the podcast yet, so

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I'll, I'll need to absorb all that.

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So look, thank you so much for being on the show.

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I appreciate you taking time out of your day to, to, to, you know, to have this

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interview with me and share your wisdom and share your you know, your, your, your

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insights about your life, your career, and, and your experiences that you've had

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as a, both as a photographer and also as a human being, living this life on earth.

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Thank you.

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I really enjoyed the conversation and I'm grateful.

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Thank you for having me in your space.

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You're welcome Claudia.

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Now for everybody else.

Speaker: 00:51:28

Thank you for leasing today's episode than his success in spot podcast.

Speaker: 00:51:32

If you've enjoyed this interview, then please share it with your mates

Speaker: 00:51:35

that you think would also benefit from listening to today's episode.

Speaker: 00:51:39

For show notes, links, and extra tips to help you accomplish more

Speaker: 00:51:42

in life and realize your potential.

Speaker: 00:51:44

Please go to success.

Speaker: 00:51:46

Inspired podcast.com.

Speaker: 00:51:48

Thank you and have a great rest of your day, everybody.